Bigotry and the Common Blog
I found this interesting article on National Review, and thought I'd share it. I enjoy the fact that Islam is still being preserved from criticism, even much deserved criticism. It seems that no progress has been made since the riots following the pope's call to reason at Regensburg.
Threaten enough people and I guess you get your way. Perhaps when Christians begin to cut off the heads of their detractors they will be afforded the same deference. I doubt that very much, for it often seems that anti-Christian sentiment is the last acceptable bigotry. Is it because we are "the Establishment" religion? Perhaps so. Europeans are increasingly godless and it has ever been the fashion of the American societal elite to ape Europe. Give him enough time, and the common man begins to ape the ape in a bid for the appearance of sophistication.
The other week I had the occasion to attempt a dialogue with another Voxer who had made it very clear that she didn't like my particular religion. She trotted out the usual litany of abuses committed by my Church over the years, but focused primarily on the sexual abuse scandal among the clergy. When I offered a counterpoint to her views, I was unfortunately met with "The Wall." That is, the "this is my personal view and I don't want to be criticized for it" wall. Now, I would hope that anyone who reads my piddling excuse for a blog would understand my frustration. Anything I post in public I understand to be open to criticism. Especially if I post something critical to another person's beliefs. Sometimes, I border on the insulting. I'd hate to be labeled a troll, but there is a point at which letting an accusation or a misconception stand is tantamount to agreement. So it seems I am constantly stepping on the toes of liberals, atheists, global warming nuts and even Protestants.
It's all quite frustrating, because at the end of the day the Internet just isn't real. The victories I might win are easily ignored. The points I make are suspect because the conversation begins with me as an intruder on a particular person's public space (which makes no sense to me...the Internet is hardly private). So what is the point of it all?
Well, I still believe that we can carry our principles with us even when we are completely anonymous. I feel that the anonymity allows us to engage in debate devoid of the usual obfuscations of personal pride and ego. Rhetorical tactics can still be used to great effect, but the debate can be essentially neutral without lacking substance.
What we say on the Internet actually is real and it matters. I still believe that relativism is the thing that will doom us to half-witted expressions of banal tolerance for even the worst sorts of offenses. And so I suppose I am going to continue feeling awkward and unpopular amongst my many anonymous Internet acquaintances.
Whose commentary, as always, I welcome.
The Evolution of Religious Bigotry
Courage without consequence.
By Jonah Goldberg
I just watched Fitna, a 17-minute film by Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders.
Released on the Internet last week, Fitna juxtaposes verses from the Koran with images from the world of jihad. Heads cut off, bodies blown apart, gays executed, toddlers taught to denounce Jews as “apes and pigs,” protesters holding up signs reading “God Bless Hitler” and “Freedom go to Hell” — these are among the powerful images from Fitna, Arabic for “strife” or “ordeal.”
Predictably, various Muslim governments have condemned the film. Half the Jordanian parliament voted to sever ties with the Netherlands. Egypt’s grand imam threatened “severe” consequences if the Dutch didn’t ban the film.
Meanwhile, European and U.N. leaders are going through the usual theatrical hand-wringing, heaping anger on Wilders for sowing “hatred.”
Me? I keep thinking about Jesus fish.
During a 1991 visit to Istanbul, a buddy and I found ourselves in a small restaurant, drinking, dancing, and singing with a bunch of middle-class Turkish businessmen, mostly shop owners. It was a hilariously joyful evening, even though they spoke little English and we spoke considerably less Turkish.
At the end of the night, after imbibing unquantifiable quantities of raki, an ouzo-like Turkish liqueur, one of the men gave me a worn-out business card. On the back, he’d scribbled an image. It was little more than a curlicue, but he seemed intent on showing it to me (and nobody else). It was, I realized, a Jesus fish.
It was an eye-opening moment for me, though obviously trivial compared with the experiences of others. Here in this cosmopolitan and self-styled European city, this fellow felt the need to surreptitiously clue me in that he was a Christian just like me (or so he thought).
Traditionally, the fish pictogram conjures the miracle of the loaves and fishes as well as the Greek word IXΘΥΣ, which means fish and also is an acronym for “Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior.” Christians persecuted by the Romans used to draw the Jesus fish in the dirt as a way to tip off fellow Christians that they weren’t alone.
In America, these fish appear mostly on cars. Recently, however, it seems Jesus fish have become outnumbered by Darwin fish. No doubt you’ve seen these, too. The fish is “updated” with little feet on the bottom, and “IXΘΥΣ” or “Jesus” is replaced with either “Darwin” or “Evolve.”
I find Darwin fish offensive. First, there’s the smugness. The undeniable message: Those Jesus fish people are less evolved, less sophisticated than we Darwin fishers.
The hypocrisy is even more glaring. Darwin fish are often stuck next to bumper stickers promoting tolerance or admonishing that “hate is not a family value.” But the whole point of the Darwin fish is intolerance; similar mockery of a cherished symbol would rightly be condemned as bigoted if aimed at blacks or women or, yes, Muslims.
As Christopher Caldwell once observed in the Weekly Standard, Darwin fish flout the agreed-on etiquette of identity politics. “Namely: It’s acceptable to assert identity and abhorrent to attack it. A plaque with ‘Shalom’ written inside a Star of David would hardly attract notice; a plaque with ‘Usury’ written inside the same symbol would be an outrage.”
But it’s the false bravado of the Darwin fish that grates the most. Like so much other Christian-baiting in American popular culture, sporting your Darwin fish is a way to speak truth to power on the cheap, to show courage without consequence.
Whatever the faults of Fitna, it ain’t no Darwin fish.
Wilders’ film could easily get him killed. It picks up the work of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who was murdered in 2004 by a jihadi for criticizing Islam.
Fitna is provocative, but it has good reason to provoke. A cancer of violence, bigotry, and cruelty is metastasizing within the Islamic world.
It’s fine for Muslim moderates to say they aren’t part of the cancer; and that some have, in response to the film, is a positive sign. But more often, diagnosing or even observing this cancer — in film, book or cartoon — is dubbed “intolerant,” while calls for violence, censorship, and even murder are treated as understandable, if regrettable, expressions of anger.
It’s not that secular progressives support Muslim religious fanatics, it’s that they reserve their passion and scorn for religious Christians who are neither fanatical nor violent.
The Darwin fish ostensibly symbolizes the superiority of progressive-minded science over backward-looking faith. I think this is a false juxtaposition, but I would have a lot more respect for the folks who believe it if they aimed their brave contempt for religion at those who might behead them for it.
Comments
Don't worry about the "global warming nuts", Al Gore will attend to them when his buddy Obama gives him a real job.This made me laugh.
The tolerance of hating Christians/Christianity is a double-standard that I will never understand. Well, I do understand it because it's Biblical (John 15:18), so it may be more accurate to say that the willing blindness of the tolerance touters to it is mind-boggling.
I saw a bumper sticker with a larger Christian fish eating a smaller Darwin fish. LOL A classic! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke.
Also just so it doesn't appear that I am being discriminatory, I am also scornful of all who incite violence no matter what their religious or non-religious beliefs.
Great line! I wonder if most "Darwinists" know that they would be beheaded next to us Christians, if the Islamic radicals had their way.
Despite what Chezz-C'Tack may say, I've never known a true Christian who has a heart full of hate and anger. But I see it everywhere in non-Christian religions (including the elitism of atheism and humanism, which are a form of religion in themselves) and the liberal left. Why is it that those groups seem to be synonymous?
Unfortunately, many times, even in this anonymous forum, a lot of posts and comments are not devoid of "personal pride and ego." I think a lot of time this forum allows people the "bravery" of anonymity, and I've seen lots of bloggers hide behind obscure photos and nicknames while spewing their anger and skewed or illogical rhetoric out to the general populace for all to see and hear. They type things in this forum that they would be loathe to say in public. Case in point, I've only been blogging a few months, but recently got an on-line stalker! (I know, welcome to cyberspace. I'm glad to report, he's been deleted from Vox.) But this guy(?) was encouraged to follow me around on Vox and post his(?) vile in reply to any comment I made just because he felt "safe" in his anonymous status. Though he may be a sociopath in real life, more than likely he is just a really sad person who would be terrified if I confronted him in person. Internet = False courage.
Well, you are certainly not unpopular. Even if you attract those that disagree with you, you have a lot of bloggers out there who like to post to your comments! And as one of your many anonymous Internet acquaintances, I will keep posting my comments to you so long as you keep putting your well scripted opinions out here. As for tolerance, well, I'm a Protestant, but I'll tolerate you anyway... ;)
Curious. What exactly is a true Christian?
Please define a true Christian, because seriously it seems to me there isn't any consensus on this matter.
Are these Islamic radicals you are talking about true Muslims? Are you saying that all Muslims have hate and anger in their hearts?
Oh come on can we please have a little bit of balance here and less generalisation and putting Christianity up as the gold standard of religions when it comes to love and peace. There are good and bad people in ALL religions and seriously do you really believe that Christianity has the monopoly on love and peace especially when compared to say Buddhism and Jainism for example.
and, wow, i didn't realize that failing to believe that some invisible man in the sky created the earth and everything on it made us smug
on one issue, i agree - ignoring the overwhelming LACK of scientific evidence in this case on the grounds of religious belief wouldn't really insulate anyone from my mockery, should i chose to mock on those grounds - which i don't - i rarely bother
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
-- Carl Sagan
Lets see should I take great offence at this comment in your profile or should I laugh it off?
"As for liberals, let’s abort them and save the children, then convert them all to GOD and the GOP!"
Oh no please don't convert the poor little things to GOP, how can you be so cruel? By the way I didn't realise that being a liberal also meant that a liberal doesn't believe in God, but I am sure it is written in the GOP Bible some where.
I guess if some of you can't laugh off a variation of a fish then I should take offence at your comment, which was just a joke after all or was it?
if i am beheaded for my belief in evolution, then at least i won't end bored to tears in some idyll of a heaven - so be it - besides, the way things are going in the US, it's the Radical Christians who'll be doing the beheading - they've always been so adept at inciting intolerance, bigotry and violence against people who's lifestyle they don't agree with and at ridiculing people who's science conflicts with their dogma..and...oh, need i go on...well, there's always the direct blowing up of abortion clinics in the name of their god or Jesus
interesting and troubling that you write that you see "hate and anger" in all "non-Christian" religions, while "true Christians" (always find this a funny term) seems to have the monopoly on all that is "good" - huh
So here are some examples of conservative Christian brave contempt. Now lets consider this it is the US we are talking about where most citizens are Christians and especially if they are conservatives, so by inference I would say that if most conservatives are Christians then these bumper stickers and badges would be made by Christian conservatives for Christian conservatives.
"Conservatives hate what people do. Liberals hate who people are" Oh really, lets see what the next sticker has to say about that.
"Life's a bitch, don't vote for one..." - followed by photo of Hilary Clinton. Gee no sign of conservative hatred there.
"Liberals Suck" - Yes very original.
"Save the baby seals - Club a liberal" - Oh how very sweet and loving, Jesus couldn't have said it better.
"kick their ass and take their gas" - This is interesting, can someone clarify is this an admission as to why we are in Iraq or is there another meaning that my dumb liberal mind doesn't get?
"GOD is a Conservative" - He is? Really? Hmmmm I wonder if God knows that, seems like using God's name in vain to me. Oh well Jesus is a liberal, so I guess that is okay.
"Liberalism a mental disorder"
"World Peace through superior firepower" - Yep because violence is the only solution, I am sure Jesus said that some where.
"Liberal - Someone so open-minded that their brains fell out"
Plus many more of these peaceful and loving bumper stickers can be found at the following websites:
Bumper Talk and
All Right Gear "Where you will find all of the gear Conservatives, Republicans or Christians need to support the capitalist economy and offend a whining, complaining, leftist, liberal Democrat."
You know what I couldn't care a less what bumper sticker you people want to put on your car, it is all rather weird to me anyway, given I come from Australia and these sort of bumper stickers are totally foreign to most of us over here. But you know what does bug me, is the attitude you conservative Christians seem to have. You seem to think you are morally superior and above all of this stuff and quite frankly you are no better, so stop being so smug and full of self righteousness and just accept that you are not totally void of hatred after all.
Also do you really think that it is brave to put these bumper stickers on your cars which demean liberals, after all if there was any group less likely to behead some one for an offence it would be us bleeding heart liberals, after all we are all a bunch of weak pacifists.
So you have a great day as well.
Curious. What exactly is a true Christian?
Please define a true Christian, because seriously it seems to me there isn't any consensus on this matter.
By "true" Christians, I mean those that truly follow the tenets of Jesus. Things like "love your neighbor", "pray for them that despise you and say all manner of evil against you", "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", "if someone slaps you on the left cheek, turn your right cheek to him, also" and "if someone takes your cloak (coat), give to him your tunic (shirt), also". Those are Jesus' words, and that is a religion full of love for your fellow man. That is a religion that puts others above self. A person who bombs an abortion clinic or beats a gay man to death is not a true Christian, whatever he may espouse, because he does not follow the commandments of Christ. (Here's another one: "If you love ME, keep my commandments.")
As a Christian, you can condemn an action as wrong (ie: abortion, homosexuality), without holding malice or hate in your heart against the people who commit those actions; the Bible tells us to preach the truth in love. Unlike Islam, wherein the actual writings of Muhammad are violent. His "surahs" (scriptures) in the Qu'ran encourage "jihad" (holy war) against others who believe differently. The religious writings of Mohammad teach his followers that men should beat others into submission of their will: unbelievers, women, children, and if that is ineffective, then kill them. The MSM wants Americans to believe that Islam is a "peaceful" religion, but their actions and their own religious writings preach differently. Don't believe me? See here: Fitna I'm no mind reader, so you tell me what is in the hearts of these men? Actions always speak louder than words.
Really? It seems to me that anti-war groups like Code Pink and pro-Homosexual groups with militant agendas are the ones inciting intolerance, bigotry and violence. Christians who disagree end up in jail. Funny, I can't think of one Christian group in America who has been in the news for beheading...
Okay we do at least agree on what a true Christian should be, well we appear to agree. I question whether many high profile televangelist type Christians are true Christians especially some with an ultra RW agenda. But it is not for me to judge them; it is for a higher power than me. Unfortunately these are the type of Christians who will be happy when we totally nuke the Middle East and bring on their man made Armageddon and destroy the world - so rather dangerous people in my mind, just as dangerous to world peace as the radical Muslims. These Christians are turning a large proportion of Christianity into a death cult. Hagee and his kind are very dangerous people with a very dangerous agenda. So maybe at this point in time Christians are not beheading people, but their actions can also cause the deaths of people and their words can incite people to hate and kill.
It seems hypocritical to me that we expect moderate Muslims to speak out against the radical Muslims, but we fail to speak out against radical Christians who also incite violence in the name of Christianity - you may say that these people are not true Christians but if they do something in the name of Christ then we cannot simply ignore them as if they were not speaking in the name of Christianity, that would be hypocritical on the part of Christians. Should we not call them out on it? It seems conservative Christians do not hesitate to call out liberal Christians when it comes to things like abortion and gay rights, but fail to call out the likes of Hagee when he blames Hurricane Katrina on people who are gay or because America allowed Israeli settlers to be removed off Palestinian land and he has also predicted a terrorist bloodbath on America if it supports the two state system in Israel. This man who has a huge following only seems to be criticised due to his comments against the Catholic Church. But should not he be called out on blaming a Hurricane on people who are gay, doesn’t a cry of blame on innocent people increase the likelihood that some Christians under his influence will then in turn treat people who are gay badly in order to try and prevent another natural disaster?
Where do people get these hateful ideas? They get them from the Bible. You know as well as I do that the Bible is not totally full of love and peace and that there are many passages in it that can be used/misused to incite hatred and violence. It seems hypocritical to me that in the film you quoted there is a call that some passages of the Qur’an should be removed, but if the same suggestion was made in reference to the Christian Bible then there would be a Christian outrage. I wonder what would happen to someone living in Europe about 500 to 700 years ago if they drew legs onto a “Jesus Fish”. I suspect they would be burned at the stake for their crime. So what has changed between now and back then when heretics were burned at the stake? The Bible certainly hasn’t changed to any great extent, so why was it okay to burn people at the stake then and it is not okay for the Christian church to do so now. The main reason is that we have become more civilised and don’t generally do those barbaric things, but the many passages in the Bible calling for the death of people for various sins are still there. Some of those passages are still used against people who are gay, if these passages weren’t there then a person could not use Christianity as an excuse for their violence. How could a Christian get away with saying this, “It’s a matter of fact, studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades. So it’s the death nail for this country. I honestly think it’s the biggest threat, even in our nation. Even more so than terrorists, or Islam, okay.” So tell me is Sally Kern a real Christian? You are worried about radical Islam but it seems according to Sally your country has a greater threat i.e. people who are gay. Doesn’t talk such as this incites violence? There is a difference to being opposed to sexual promiscuity in any community and saying that a homosexual is more of a threat to the nation than a terrorist. Terrorists get locked up for years without a trial, so what should happen to homosexuals if they are a bigger threat? By the way she has a lot of support in her views. I do not support the hate mail she has received, but I also do not support her over the top words which may incite violence against the LGBT people.
You are right there are passages in the Qur’an which do incite violence. There are also passages in the Qur’an calling for love and peace. The issue is which passages are still relevant and which passages are not. It is unfortunate that many of the cultures where Islam is prominent have not progressed in terms of where they are in terms of civilisation. Their culture does play an important part in their interpretation of their text. There is no doubt there is a serious problem which we need to be aware of when it comes to radical Islam and world peace. But it is wrong to tar every Muslim with the same brush; just as it would be wrong to tar every Christian with the same brush of the Christians you would term “not real” Christians. There are Muslims trying to take a more moderate approach and I think it is important to acknowledge these Muslims and support these Muslims:
http://www.reformislam.org
http://www.reformislam.org/verses.php
We in the West do also have to take some responsibility for some of the violence occurring in the Middle East and also much closer to home. Iraq may not have been perfect under Saddam Hussein but women were a lot better off before the current occupation occurred. The invasion of Iraq has not made our world a safer place and of course there will be resentment against the West due to its unwanted presence in the Middle East. The way the US has enabled Israel to oppress the Palestinians is a real issue and the US can pretend all it likes that it isn’t an issue when it comes to terrorism, but it is.
I think that Christianity is the best way to know God. Buddhism is not about God, and Jainism seems to have Godhood as the ultimate goal for a human soul.
The argument can and has been made that when Christians act in ways that are contrary to their faith they are not acting as Christians. Say, blowing up an abortion clinic. Obviously that is a crime, has the potential to harm people, and does damage to the credibility of those who stand for rational opposition to abortion. No thinking Christian would do this and still believe they are acting correctly. But they get the press, you know.
I agree with you that bumper stickers are crass and often pointless expressions that allow one to broadcast their opinion to a world which probably doesn't care to hear it. Jonah Goldberg would probably say the same.
God gave us reason, which allows us to evaluate the positions of others in the context of our beliefs and, yes, judge them accordingly. It is possible to objectively judge that an action is moral or immoral. This is a classic error.
The error made by many Christians is looking for the splinter in his neighbor's eye without removing the beam from his own.
Pastor Hagee does not enjoy wide influence. He has a television show, but his views are not those driving American policies. And, the notion that God has lifted his special protection from America for this or that offense is as old as dirt.
For my money, Hagee's a charlatan and a Catholic-baiter. Bearing in mind that Catholicism is the largest single Christian group in the country with several tens of millions of adherents, and Hagee boasts perhaps several thousand direct followers...I wouldn't worry about him.
I would say that when we're speaking of death in this context it is most likely death of the soul, a rejection of God's love and laws which results in being forever separated from Him. Physical death is no longer acceptable to our understanding, but our understanding was not fully developed in the days of yore. And it is not fully developed yet, I'd add.
Well, so there's your Bible question answered...
Off-topic.
As a follower of Christ, I am insulted by all the Christians out there whining about their persecution. I feel like those who play the victim all the time make the rest of us look like sorry wimps. Speak truth to power; don't try to whine power into being. You were told by your Lord that you are blessed for all your persecution, after all, so if you perceive you are persecuted in this wealthy, spoiled Christian country (which is a laughable notion to me), then embrace it as your lot! But the fact is, you don't have to hide. You can put that Jesus fish right on your bumper an no one's going to stone you for it.
Kids, if you can't handle some cretin pointing and laughing at you for your beliefs; if your faith is that easily shaken, you'd better reevaluate your devotion post haste!
The persecution of Christians in the U.S. is a myth. It's much ado about nothing. Christians make up something like 3/4 of the U.S. but Goldberg wants me to believe Evolutionists playing a bit of satire with the Ichthys is akin to persecution? Bah. That would be funny if it weren't so pathetically sad.
My name is Kirk Starr. I am a Christian, but I am not a victimized wussy. There, I said it.
And don't forget, Jesus took a beating the likes of which you will never see and yet still asked God to forgive his persecutors. How does that jibe with how Christians deal with their supposed persecution today?
And that right there, people, is why it's impossible to have intelligent discourse anymore. Note that Mr. Phelan has completely dismissed his opponent's valid point by playing coy and then accentuating his smug attitude with an obviously false platitude.
Way to go, dude. I couldn't have contrived a more perfect example of passive-aggressive hypocrisy if I tried. Thanks.
Kirk,
I don't recall you being part of the discussion between Chezz and I. But at any rate, if you would like to have "intelligent discourse" with me then say so, don't come on here and dump and say, I am "dismissive" and make other accusation. Finally, Chezz is well spoken enough to engage me, why do you feel it so necessary to speak on Chezz’s behalf? Maybe you need a check on your alter ego.
Oh, sorry about that. I didn't realize it was by invitation only. My bad.
But you were dismissive. I call them as I see them. And that was the only accusation I made.
It's not meant as an insult to Chezz, to be sure. I replied because I was rather put off by your dismissal of his very poignant comment. I felt the need to speak up, so I did. I'm pesky like that.
I have but one persona.
I think that to say Christians are persecuted i